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Card table testing, sample card is Jefferson DeGrey's 2, 3, Q Edit

by Qubitsu 00:06, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

2 Attack 2.6 ●○○○ 4
Combos into a 3, a Linker, or an Ender.
Dodge
When you dodge an attack or Joker, you may hit back with any single attack or throw. (It becomes an ender.)
3 Attack 3.6 ●○○○ 4
Combos into a Linker, or an Ender.
Dodge
When you dodge an attack or Joker, you may hit back with any single attack or throw. (It becomes an ender.)
Q Attack 7.0 ●●○○ 143
Pilebunker Starter Knockdown
Combos into a Linker, or an Ender.

Without reminder text Edit

Without "or" Edit

2 Attack 2.6 ●○○○ 4
Dodge
Q Attack 7.0 ●●○○ 143
Pilebunker Starter Knockdown

With "or" Edit

3 Attack 3.6 ●○○○ 4
or
Dodge
3 Attack 3.6 ●○○○ 4
or
Dodge

Those look really nice, I think they could do without the reminder text though, it takes up a lot of space and makes it harder to get a quick assessment of card distribution. Maybe add some indicator to the cp box of linker/ender/starter/cant combo. Zalxixmavon 01:04, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I tried out some versions without reminder text, but I'm torn about whether or not to remove them. I agree that it makes it bulkier and harder to read card distribution, but I could also see the reminder text providing value to new players, and also possibly growing into a feature -- like being able to click on the words in the reminder text to view some kind of filtered table of cards that given card can combo with. (Complicated; may require Semantic MediaWiki and lots of time spent organizing.)
As far as card distribution, would it solve the problem to also include a card distribution table within the article as well (basically a tabular version of the lists that are currently on the character pages)? -- Qubitsu 23:59, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
I was just looking at what you've showed so far. I do like it without help text (easier to read, and the help text probably isn't that necessary), but I do feel things like "linker," "ender," "knocksdown," etc are important. I do like having actual words for "Linker" and "Ender" and "Starter," but I also like that symbols convey things quickly and easily, and I also like following the card convention (i.e. having all that info in the info bar). Here are some symbols I came up with that I made as a suggestion for another resource someone made. Here they are:
Icons for starter, ender, linker, can't combo, and knock down:
S→
E.
←L→
.CC.
KD↓
I feel if those were colour coded (e.g. Linker, etc, on a white background; Knockdown on with white text on a black background), it might work pretty well. In making them, I tried to not just use letters to abbreviate, but use a combination of letters and other symbols to create unique, more recognisable symbols intended to be used where space is at a premium.

That said, you could probably expand the table to just fit the full words for "Starter, Linker, Ender, and Can't Combo" and just not use the smaller abbreviations, though I do like the idea of having KD↓ for Knockdown (since we don't have Sirlin's little knockdown man, and it's probably good if we don't use the knockdown man icon and do something original).

Here's an example using Geiger's 8:
8 Throw 8.8 ●●○○ Starter KD↓ 8
* Research and Development
Block
Some notes:
  • I increased the width of the table now that it has "Starter" and "KD" in the info bar because at the same width you guys were using, it displays okay in monobook, but not in the default wikia theme--it was all squashed compared to monobook, which was not squashed. Update: so I got it looking okay in the default wikia theme, but now it looks all elongated and not good monobook.
    • It has to do with the padge width % figure. Monobook has a wider page width, and Wikia default theme--called "Monarco", or something--is a smaller width. Perhaps we can use a fixed table width, instead of a % based width, so it displays properly in both (I like the idea of not having to use monobook since I can use the nice WYSIWYG editor that Monarco comes with, but I really enjoy monobook. I'll try Monarco for a while.)
  • I got rid of the "or" (the people who can read these reference tables will most likely know the rules of the game)
  • I used brown for R&D because abilities are have a brown boarder around them on the cards. I also used an asterisk because that's what the actual cards have on them to indicate the card has an ability on it (a few other guides use it, too. I feel it works well).
  • In terms of how to display R&D and other abilities:
  • Maybe we could include a description for R&D (perhaps to the right of the card in smaller font with a "*" in brown followed by the description in small black text on a grey-ish background, like the cards).
  • Or we could link to a description of R&D
  • Or have the description under table for that card (though that'd be less neat, appearance-wise)
  • Or maybe we could have a tricky little "i" icon after the "Research and Development" that when you mouse over it, you can read the description for R&D.
  • Right now, having a second table to the right of the card with a description of R&D seems the simplest and if formatted nicely, I feel it'll look pretty good. In the ability description table to the right, "* Research and Development" would still be brown, bold, but a much smaller font than in the table to the left, and the text below it would be a much smaller font, but still readable, It might also have a light grey background colour (I like that idea, and it might work well since not everyone is using monobook like me, so it makes the table stand out a bit, and also the actual cards have a grey background for ability text with a brown boarder. Not sure if we need a boarder (I feel we probably wouldn't). For the ability table background colour, either Lavender, HoneyDew, Gainsboro, and AliceBlue -- from this website: http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_colornames.asp -- would probably work well (testing it would be best).
  • A thin black boarder around the box that "Starter" is in would be good
  • I wanted the "8" (which indicates the damage of the throw) to be bigger, but I'm not sure how to make the column it fits in bigger (ideally you want the box the "8" damage goes in to be bigger, but not the other ones; and for cards with block damage, the block damage would be smaller than the text size of the attack damage). Again, I feel the more we can draw on the card conventions (i.e. something all Yomi players will learn and be able to recognise very easily with minimal processing), the better.
Also, as a completely alternative suggestion, we could also have the "mouse-over card names and an image of the card pops up" idea I suggested ages ago on the forum if someone is able and willing to do the code for that. -- Bruce A 14:27, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Very nice! Though I'd use icons for combo points, not numbers. E.g. ●●●

If we could find some hollow circles, that'd be great, too. E.g. Like this, but better: ●●oo, ●ooo, ●●●●●o

Though you could also do it as ●●● of 4, ● of 4, etc.

Or even as ●●● of ●●●●, or ● of ●●●● (though that's perhaps less clear).

The filled in/hollow circle format is probably the nicest looking one (though one issue is that when you have more than 3 dots, it becomes hard to see how many dots are there at a glance, so numbers are helpful in that sense).

In a post I made I did it like this: ●●●●●(5)

Maybe it could be like this: ●●●●●(5/6); ●(1/6) . Or like this: ●●●●●o(5/6); ●ooooo(1/6) Bruce A 18:13, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

I found the empty bullet glyph (○) and tried it out -- looks pretty good! I do wonder if there are older browsers that won't display it properly though... -- Qubitsu 23:59, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
Very nice! That's exactly what I was thinking of. Generally I'm one to be inclusive, but since browser updating is so easy, if we have a solution that's really good, I feel it's better to use it even if people with older browsers don't see it. (Internet Explorer 7 shows it; not sure if that's considered an older browser.)

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